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24 August 2005

Is it just me, or do you find the MeeF less and less useful?→[More:]
I find myself trepadatious about posting long replies, since I've had too many eaten by the site going down.

I wanted to see if projects.metafilter.com was up, and it wasn't, so I went to search metatalk to see if there was a post about it, but the search was throwing CF errors, so I started to make a post asking about it (projects, not the search), but decided I didn't need the snark and the grief.

I find myself less and less willing to put any effort in to finding and making good posts for the blue, since you just get crapped on for your trouble.

Is it just me?
post by: Capn at: 18:20 | 77 comments
Nope, not just you. I've all but vansihed from that site, preferring instead to spend my time with you fine folks.

I haven't made a FPP in forever, mostly because I haven't found anything of interest, but also because it just doesn't seem worth the effort. (The one cool thing I found I posted here, actually.) I make short but non-confrontational posts, and more than half are on AskMe...
posted by Specklet 24 August | 18:25
So, Capn - do you have a project to announce?

signed, "curious bunny"
posted by taz 24 August | 18:30
Well, I do have a cheap-to-produce portable personal transporter, but I'll wait until projects.meef is up to offically launch that.

In the mean time though, you can look at my crappy film festival blog (in which I play the part of thirteendamndollars)
posted by Capn 24 August | 18:38
Was it ever useful?
posted by mudpuppie 24 August | 18:48
Hah, Capn! I love "Aboot" and "A Boot"!

(And the "Golden Boot" is a great prize/rating!)
posted by taz 24 August | 18:53
Well, I do have a cheap-to-produce portable personal transporter
And I am just looking for something to someday build cities around. Let's do lunch.
posted by PinkStainlessTail 24 August | 19:04
This site is just bunnilicious. Mefi is not what it once was to me, and probably never was.

There can NEVER be too many bunnies, and pancakes not required.
posted by bunnyfire 24 August | 19:46

Well, I do have a cheap-to-produce portable personal transporter

And I am just looking for something to someday build cities around. Let's do lunch.

Ooh-ooh! Call it "IT"! (and then call it "Ginger") ; >
posted by amberglow 24 August | 19:52
you're right, bunny, but it's not because of the server or jrun errors. (and i don't think it was like this when i joined--there was a higher class/more subtle variation of troll around then, i think)

: (
posted by amberglow 24 August | 19:54
I spend less time there replying than I used to, but still post something if I find something fun. No real reason other than the rise in the number of replies in a thread has been proportional to the number of new users, and by the time I get around to replying to a post, someone's probably already said it better/snarkier/with links to back their smartassery up.

Online communities change/grow/evolve. People come and go. I find it all rather fascinating, but less participatory than the days of yore.
posted by WolfDaddy 24 August | 20:01
It's gotten more mean spirited and petty, which is bad, but I can't stop going there, It would fall apart without me.
posted by jonmc 24 August | 20:06
Odd observation about MeFi and all it's offshoots. I read other community sites (like Fark and Slashdot and Plastic) and I find them entertaining and interesting, but on MeFi people's personalities come through a lot better for some reason, and that's what ultimately brings me back, I guess. We post the same shit at MeFi that gets posted at other sites, but I'm always curious about certain peoples take on it, so I tune in. I don't do that anywhere else.
posted by jonmc 24 August | 20:11
Yeah, like that guy who posted about drunk guys in flannel beating up spoiled kids in Williamsburg.
posted by matildaben 24 August | 21:15
Hell, most of us drunk guys in flannel are too out of it to beat anyone up. Last night I went to my local dive. It was 2-for-1 night so I wound up having 8 beers. While I was sipping my seventh this rather seedy specimen came up to me. First he asked if I was a cop. Then he said he "needed to get rid of some Xanax." I was drunk but still sane enough to realize I didn't want a trip to the emergency room and said I'd pass.
posted by jonmc 24 August | 21:23
I went to MeFi to marvel at the exploits of jonmc, but I had to come here to know him. Or something. Um. Does anyone have Eddy Grant's "Walking on Sunshine"?

Where am I, and who are all these bunnies?
posted by goatdog 24 August | 21:23
Does anyone have Eddy Grant's "Walking on Sunshine"?

He covered that? I have his old band the Equals, doing "Police On my Back," which the Clash later covered admirably.
posted by jonmc 24 August | 21:26
I find that if I have a question about anything, I'm much more apt to ask it here, where no one seems judgemental. I don't think I've used AskMe to ask a question since MetaChat came along. Not saying I never would again, but people here are a lot more hospitable and helpful, doncha think.
posted by iconomy 24 August | 21:30
So should we be expecting a blowjob advice question sometime soon, iconomy?
posted by gaspode 24 August | 21:31
No, he put out an album called that in 1979. It's been out of print forever.
posted by goatdog 24 August | 21:32
The only advice is this: don't bite. Otherwise, even when it's bad, it's still pretty damned good.
posted by jonmc 24 August | 21:32
No shit, goatdog? His stuff with the Equals kicks 57 flavors of ass, though. "I Get So Excited," is one of the best testosterone overload songs in history.
posted by jonmc 24 August | 21:34
gaspode, how the hell did you know?

Dear MeCha,

What's better - altoids or ice cubes?

xox
posted by iconomy 24 August | 21:43
I think I like the people here better (basically because of #metachat, I know more people), but when I'm bored at work, MeFi is better (when it's up, that is).
posted by goatdog 24 August | 21:48
Y'ever had those Ginger Altoids? OH YEAH.

If you're ever going to bribe me, I don't take money, but rather delicious ginger sweets.

(I like the green okay)
posted by selfnoise 24 August | 21:52
What about those Citrus Sour altoids? "Curiously Strong," is an understatement, they made every opening in my body pucker.
posted by jonmc 24 August | 21:55
Woah, man. Woah.
posted by loquacious 24 August | 21:56
*taking notes*
posted by iconomy 24 August | 22:03
well, there's an image, jon.
posted by gaspode 24 August | 22:05
I forgot there's one other piece of blowjob advice, don't ignore dick's neighbors-the twins. They are your freinds.
posted by jonmc 24 August | 22:05
So no love for ice cubes then?
posted by iconomy 24 August | 22:07
Uh, with the ice cubes: do they come with bourbon?
posted by selfnoise 24 August | 22:08
I have used both altoids and ice cubes in my time, iconomy. The boys in question seemed to like them.
posted by gaspode 24 August | 22:21
I've made out with a girl where we swapped an ice cube between our mouths, but I've never had props used down in the nether reigons.
posted by jonmc 24 August | 22:23
actually, jonmc, I've used beer as well.
posted by gaspode 24 August | 22:26
did you belch?
posted by jonmc 24 August | 22:27
heh, that may have been a tad... difficult, given the circumstances.
posted by gaspode 24 August | 22:31
I've heard more than once that the celebrity that gives the best head is Jerry Hall. She had some secret technique that supposedly kept Mick Jagger putty in her hands for years. I know it involved ice cubes, but I haven't any details, drats.
posted by iconomy 24 August | 22:36
Jerry Hall: Champion Chickenhead.

*slaps self*
posted by jonmc 24 August | 22:38
What's better - altoids or ice cubes?

Alternate them. Keep him guessing at all times. Use your hand(s, if necessary) as an extension of your mouth. Be aware the frenulum is analogous to the clitoris, at least in circumcised guys. Uncircumcised guys seem to be all frenulum, dammit. Don't develop an identifiable rhythm until you/he/both are ready to take things to their natural conclusion. If there's too great a difference in height, don't attempt 69. Don't talk with your mouth full. Do talk when your mouth's not full. Almost everything down there is tingly and likes to be lapped. Don't forget guys have nipples, though not all of them like them to be played with ... but hey, they just may never have thought about it, so ask. Especially if you've got some ice. Tongue studs can be used to provide exquisite sensation. So can home massage devices vibrators. Some guys tummies are exquisitely sensitive to touch which may deflate or enhance the experience for them, so tread carefully. Same with knees and backs of knees. If he's clamping down on your head with his thighs (this seems almost involuntary sometimes), stroke the insides of them softly with your thumbs and he'll open back up. If he wants to finish in your mouth and you don't want him to, tell him you'd much rather see the volcano erupt and he might stroke his own ego for you.

I've really made too much a study of this haven't I?
posted by WolfDaddy 24 August | 22:43
I do remember the first time a girl [ahem] swallowed my babies. I was so stimulated afterwards that I couldn't stop laughing, like I'd been tickled really hard or something. The girl was a little nonplussed.

Tongue studs can be used to provide exquisite sensation

As Chris Rock put it:

"If a girl has a stud in her tongue, she'll probably suck your dick. If a guy has a stud in his tounge, he'll probably suck your dick.."
posted by jonmc 24 August | 22:45
True, true. Unless they're a married couple and then they're just so kinky it's hot.
posted by WolfDaddy 24 August | 22:50
Or so hot it's kinky.

I forget which.
posted by WolfDaddy 24 August | 22:51
So should we be expecting a blowjob advice question sometime soon, iconomy?
posted by gaspode 24 August | 21:31

No, he put out an album called that in 1979. It's been out of print forever.
posted by goatdog 24 August | 21:32

Somehow I misread this to mean that jonmc put out an album in 1979 called "Blowjob Advice". Which I found strange, strange, and with the added strangeness of goatdog knowing it and gaspode asking iconomy about it.
posted by bugbread 25 August | 05:44
And in ref to Capn, my comments don't disappear when MeFi crashes in Firefox (dunno if that's true for all versions/platforms), so the crashing doesn't bother me in that particular way...and you've probably seen how lengthy my responses can be.
posted by bugbread 25 August | 05:45
Well. It's no wonder it sold out!

Next up, jonmc & the butthole puckers do the fado lament, "Bikini Waxing Baby".
posted by taz 25 August | 05:52
It's gotten more mean spirited and petty, which is bad, but I can't stop going there, It would fall apart without me.
I agree that it has got more mean-spirited and I would add that it has got much more personal with it. Time was when people called each other all sorts of bad names but got over it pretty quick - now it seems that grudges are too important not to hang on to. The same has happened with #mefi and I think the two downfalls are related somehow.

A word of advice, though - don't test out your theory that MeFi will fall apart without you - take it from me that, no matter how much you think you contribute, 99.999999% of people will not even notice you are gone and the rest will be happy about it.
posted by dg 25 August | 08:01
i can attest.
posted by quonsar 25 August | 08:15
click here to see image
posted by rainbaby 25 August | 08:33
yay rainbaby!
posted by dodgygeezer 25 August | 08:48
I have the impression that the all-open all-the-time membership isn't helping (aside from technical issues), but of course that's a difficult thing to gauge. The hard truth is that I feel embarrassed a lot of the times when I look at threads, and that makes me feel more separated. I don't think there's an ideal solution. We needed and wanted new members, and we got some fantastic ones, especially in the beginning. There was definitely a marked improvement, and then, in my opinion, a decline as more and more casual users signed up...

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's mostly my imagination or rose-colored-memory or something, but I used to feel a definite connection, even though certain warts were glaringly obvious... I still felt like these were my people. This feeling didn't diminish when membership was first opened up; in fact, it increased, as all the self-selecting people who had already been members in their heads for years started showing up as users instead of lurkers. But then came the point of decreasing returns (or some technical term that I don't know, but you get what I mean), and it seemed to rapidly devolve somehow. I'm perfectly aware that I open myself up to charges of elitism, or at the very least "selective memory", but I'm trying to be honest about my perceptions, as wrong as they might very well be.
posted by taz 25 August | 09:24
If you apply Icy Hot to the testicles of your partner, apply it SPARINGLY!
posted by matildaben 25 August | 09:39
This makes me a little bit sad. I'm a pretty new Mefi member, and I'm not the best poster, commenter, or anything like that. Far from it. But I like to think I'm working on a good faith basis to contribute.

A lot of the unpleasantness on the Blue and elsewhere does result from new members either being inept or unpleasant. But the nastiest stuff seems to be reserved as the domain of older, more established members who seem to be acting in bad faith towards the community aspects of the site. Some pursue personal vendettas against other members. Some deliberately provoke certain members or groups of members. And some are just grindingly caustic and unpleasant in a way that is both unnecessary and provides a really bad example for newer members, who then see this as acceptable behavior. I know I've caught myself posting some nasty, stupid things because it seemed to be the way things were done from the top down.

I realize I'm new, but that's just the way it looks from my hole in the ground.
posted by selfnoise 25 August | 09:52
Well... you see, there's where my remarks go astray: I'm marking certain separations that don't necessarily exist. One absolutely cannot apply any specific set of criteria to users newer or older, I know that. But there are certain trends that have to do membership, perhaps.

One of the worst times was just before membership opened up, with all the election and 9-11 quagmire, and the membership really sinking down into a horrible depressing sameness. That was a trend that had to do with insufferable staleness, while this one has to do with a lot of aping behaviour and failed attempts at being edgy, etc. So I'd probably do better to call it "an atmosphere" - that has been nurtured by certain circumstances.
posted by taz 25 August | 10:16
taz, you should consider politics.

Afterwards, go get yourself a cold white wine and put your feet up.
posted by peacay 25 August | 10:39
I've wondered a lot recently if memberships will ever be closed again. I'm not sure if I have the guts to post to MeTalk and ask, fearing the responses, but I wonder a lot.

I've read MeFi for a long time, for a couple of years before I became a member, off and on. I know that there are a lot of things I did not notice as a reader that I now notice, so my observations are certianly colored by that. Still, I think that the site could use a period during which the membership consolidated a little bit, since it is now so big. This isn't a specific comment on tone or contributions or anything, but more about a sense that I have that the group needs to coalesce around some community norms if it's going to keep being good. I'd like to see membership close for that reason, for some period of time.
posted by omiewise 25 August | 10:50
Metachat's spoiled Metafilter for me. I never thought I had the capacity to be so disloyal, but I've seemingly moved all feelings of community from Metafilter to here. I guess the difference is that it's just so much more fun over here. Where else can you post "Big Balloons!!!" (linking obviously to a picture of some big balloons) as a front page post and get away with it. Try doing that on metafilter, and see what happens.

I agree with the assertion that grudges are kept up a lot longer than they were before, but I'd hazard that this is caused by a wholesale diminished sense of communal responsibility.

Metafilter needs to get a sense of fun and belonging back. People over there need to chill out a bit more, and it needs to take itself a lot less seriously. You'll notice, for example that there are no longer so many Flash Friday posts. There's alot of fun to be had in mindless game based competition. (I only got 500 yo bastard.)

I wonder what the changes in communal behaviour were caused by. There are a number of things that occur...
- open memberships
- technological changes to the site (tags?)
- More frequent downtime.
- Multiple Administrators.
- Charging for membership.
- Getting old.

Perhaps it's like a love affair we've become tired of. Every new thing is an excuse to bicker, but the problem isn't the bickering it's simply that our time has come.

Wahay... Long meandering post this one.
Which leads nowhere.
posted by seanyboy 25 August | 11:48
I had been more active in MetaTalk than in MetaFilter proper for quite awhile before membership opened up. Not that I didn't read the front page and click on links, but I found myself far less likely to comment than I once did, mostly because I was tired of the pointless arguments. At least in MetaTalk, the fights were entertaining.

Communities change. Often, a core group of members moves on to create their own enclave, still related to the original community but removed from the rabble. It's happened before with MeFi with 9622, and now there's MetaChat. We'll still go back to MetaFilter, but now we have another playground with a gate, albeit a small one.
posted by me3dia 25 August | 11:51
Where else can you post "Big Balloons!!!" (linking obviously to a picture of some big balloons) as a front page post and get away with it. Try doing that on metafilter, and see what happens.

Well, let's find out.
posted by Capn 25 August | 12:07
I like both, but I feel I've really gotten to know people much better through here.
posted by sisterhavana 25 August | 12:14
I wonder what the changes in communal behaviour were caused by. There are a number of things that occur...
- open memberships
- technological changes to the site (tags?)
- More frequent downtime.
- Multiple Administrators.
- Charging for membership.
- Getting old.

seanyboy, these are all good points but I believe you forgot one:

- The Exodous to Metachat.

It seems as though many of the people who want to chat, be helpful, and have fun have come to spend more time here and less time on The Filter. I noticed this awhile ago when I was scrolling through Metafilter and found myself wondering, 'Hey, where did Divine_Wino go?' The answer? Metachat.
posted by Fuzzy Monster 25 August | 12:26
Or what Specklet said: I've all but vanished from that site, preferring instead to spend my time with you fine folks.
posted by Fuzzy Monster 25 August | 12:29
I can't believe the balloon post is still there.
posted by iconomy 25 August | 13:27
and the comment in the balloon post comparing the Capn's FPP to the all time greatest is evidence of something or other.

And it is the Dog Days, folks. Wait for Labor Day to pass and things should perk up a little.

I would say the Capn's experiment was an unqualified success.
posted by warbaby 25 August | 14:11
wow, late response here

do you find the MeeF less and less useful?

no, I think the Man's aim that MeFi should be so fucking USEFUL is what's killing it/changing it. I thought MeFi was a community, not a web app.
this and the Man's obvious concern with the website's public image. on some grumpy days I would say that the Man has big dollar his eyes, and that it shows. this is one of those days.
sorry, but that's the way I feel. good for MH if he makes some money off the site, but once in a while I feel like a worker bee in a money-making hive. and I already have a job, thank you very much.
posted by mr.marx 25 August | 14:15
Capn, I almost posted some ironic harangue in that thread. It was to focus on a lack of contextual and background links that would've filled out your post like so much more hot air and illuminated the concept of "balloon" as much as offering an exegesis on the images of the balloons themselves. I was entertaining the possibility of a detour into the semiotics of images as well as dreams, particularly as they pertain to flight --highlighting the Lacanian implications of the text while simultaneously working to show his deficiencies in the therapeutic scene. I performed link research but decided it would be more fun and appropriate to the post to just link to them and that act in isolation from the so-called speech would relieve me of the future burden of explaining that I meant the "outrage" all in jest.

In other words, and to actually bring this back on topic, I liked your post but am afraid to "play around" on mefi for fear that the current atmosphere (as I see it) there tends to taint the good natured joking.
posted by safetyfork 25 August | 14:20
But here, I'm obviously embiggened by metachat's spirit to kid ('n' play)!
Even when the jokes fall a wee flat.
posted by safetyfork 25 August | 14:35
I think that a large proportion of people on MeFi (and in the blogging community in general) were bullied or picked on as kids, grew up desperately wanting acceptance, and when the found it they often turn around and act exclusionary and bullying towards anyone who deviates from their norm. It's kind of disgusting to watch.
posted by jonmc 25 August | 14:41
I agree jon. I think a lot of people see Metafilter as a thunderdome for nerds.
posted by dodgygeezer 25 August | 14:42
Capn! Your post has them baffled. They're not sure whether to bash it or question it or contribute or what. Thanks for posting it. :)

I still visit the blue and post occasionally but I contribute less and less. It's like walking in a minefield over there. There are a lot of people who are just looking to get offended and start arguments and while it can be fun to debate for a while it very quickly gets tiring. Plus most of the best posts tend to get overlooked.

I much prefer it over here. We are able to discuss serious issues when we need to and I think we do them well. For the most part we manage to be pretty civil even when we disagree. And silliness is allowed here! We are allowed to be silly for silliness' sake and I think that helps keep things from getting too tense. Mefi could use more silliness but I don't think it's going to happen. There are too many curmudgeons over there who seem strangely proud of their dour, joyless reputations. It's always amused me that a site made up of mostly, let's face it, nerds and geeks is worried about coming off as uncool if they act too silly or get caught enjoying the wrong thing.

So, I'll still visit Mefi and enjoy the roughhousing and may even post from time to time but I don't have too much invested in it anymore. I spent years lurking that site hoping against hope that I might get in one day and be able to be part of the community. It doesn't feel like a community anymore really and I can't remember why I spent so much time wanting to get in. Maybe it's just a case of the grass is always greener and it's not Mefi that's changed but me. Maybe Metachat just spoiled me. *shrug*

In any case it's Metachat that gets my love now. Mefi is where I vist. Metachat is where I feel at home.
posted by LeeJay 25 August | 14:43
thunderdome for nerds

Ogre: Then and Now
posted by LeeJay 25 August | 14:51
And it is the Dog Days, folks. Wait for Labor Day to pass and things should perk up a little.


I've noticed over the last three years that when the weather turns hot, Mefites get nasty. But this year ... I haven't noticed so much. Not sure why, maybe I'm paying less attention after all. I must say that post-anastasiav's contest at the beginning of the month, I've spent more time at MeFi than I have. Interesting. Or not.
posted by WolfDaddy 25 August | 15:06
It's always amused me that a site made up of mostly, let's face it, nerds and geeks is worried about coming off as uncool if they act too silly or get caught enjoying the wrong thing.

That's because they're not really nerds and geeks, or more accurately, they're geeks who always secretly wanted to be the bully rather than the bullied. Or they're merely miserable people who want every to be miserable with them.
posted by jonmc 25 August | 15:13
thunderdome for nerds

It just bears repeating. Thanks.
posted by rainbaby 25 August | 15:20
My accounts on MeFi were banned. I understand why I deserved, say, a timeout-- I was a (harmless) dick to two people there when I shouldn't have been, however other users have done worse than I did (calling for other users to be harmed, making fun of users' family illnesses etc) and they haven't been banned.

All the more reason why I appreciate MetaChat and am glad to join you all here.
posted by mcgraw 25 August | 15:26
*makes note to ban mcgraw in the interests of consistency*

I think taz has it pretty right in that the open membership caused the (current) problems. Not to say that the new users caused them, but the nastiness was a side effect of their arrival. I don't know that closing the gates now would fix it, because the dynamics have changed too much to ever go back.
posted by dg 25 August | 18:35
capn: You just made my month.
posted by seanyboy 25 August | 20:11
The comments, the comments. They make me laugh so much.
really.
It actually hurts...


WTF? - posted by dobbs
So, um, why'd you post this? - posted by teece
You mean this isn't about Hollywood? - posted by caddis
Ladies and Gentlemen, CADDIS!!! THE ONE. TRICK. PONY!!!!!! - posted by mr.curmudgeon
nevermind...confused caddis with someone else. My bad. - posted by mr.curmudgeon
Wheee! I can do google image search too! - posted by Deathalicious
Excellent pictures. How so? posted by wsg

LMFCO
posted by seanyboy 25 August | 20:18
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